Civil 3D 2017 is not Backwards Compatible

Many Civil 3D users will be surprised to learn that Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatible to earlier versions.  This will hurt many firms who purchased subscription for some but not all of their Civil 3D licenses to  maintain compatibility with external clients.

Dave Simeone, Senior Product Manager – AutoCAD Civil 3D, gave the following explanation for Autodesk’s rationale for not maintaining backward compatibility.

“Civil 3D Object Format – Yes, we made the hard decision to update our objects for Release 2017. This enables us to properly implement the improvements in the initial release AND also provide us a platform for some things that we’re hoping to deliver during the year.”

Moving data from 2017 back to previous releases is still achievable, however, not directly using Save As on the drawing. The Civil 3D data aspects need to be transferred via other methods, such as LandXML.

If users want to maintain compatibility with Civil 3D 2017, they must either:

  • Pay the annual subscription on existing perpetual licenses or
  • Pay the $2,100 annual rental for new licenses or older seats not on subscription or
  • Look for alternatives that support LandXML.

Although AutoCAD and Civil 3D are proven products and industry standards,  there is a lot of resentment towards Autodesk amongst their user base:

  • Perceived high cost
  • Resentment over forced annual payments (subscription or rental)
  • The complexity of Civil 3D and the long learning curve.

I quoted an experienced Civil 3D instructor in an earlier post:

” I love it (ie Civil 3D), I can use it, but still face all the issues listed. I stand by that out of all the users, 5% can actually use it, even after all these years. In the end, it costs everyone that tries to use it, more money than what they are doing already. I’ve made a living off of it being so difficult to use, only to be left tired of all the complaints and 2D usage of C3D!”

 Has Autodesk’s pendulum swung too far away from customers and partners leaving an opening for entrepreneurial competitors?

  • BricsCAD , priced from  $680 for a perpetual license,  offers all of the functionality of AutoCAD  with DWG, LISP, CUI and command line compatibility. It is gaining a groundswell of enthusiastic users amazed by its small footprint (190 mb) and its blazing speed.
  • Civil Site Design is a 3rd party application, originally developed as an add-on to Civil 3D, now offers equivalent functionality and more for less than the annual rental fee of Civil 3D. A single license will run with Civil 3D, AutoCAD and BricsCAD on the same computer.
  • Stringer Topo ($745) is a solution for surveyors, many of whom are still using 10 year old versions of Land Development Desktop and have no low cost way to upgrade.
  • Spatial Manager is a powerful geo-spatial tool that adds much of the functionality of AutoCAD Map to BricsCAD for as low as $129.

Rather than focusing on developing great, reliable, efficient software Autodesk has evolved into a self centered marketing juggernaut.  When Autodesk could not deliver new or updated products addressing vertical market needs,  users were enticed into purchasing poorly integrated product suites that they did not need or use to drive short term revenue.

Anecdotally, many users are furious with Autodesk.  The frustration is most evident in the smaller civil design firms who require highly functional design software at a reasonable cost.  With modern tools, supported by detailed on-line how to videos these firms have an opportunity to dominate the highly competitive local market as discussed here.

Larger firms do take advantage of the functionality offered by the more advanced features such as InfraWorks  because large projects often require the analysis and visualization tools offered.  One hypothesis I have heard is that Autodesk can do very well servicing only these large accounts.  What will happen to Autodesk when these firms begin to look for complementary alternatives offered at a much lower cost?

In the early days of my career, I joined a mid-sized civil engineering firm that dominated the smaller local government market in Alberta, Canada.  They not only provided engineering services to towns and cities but were often retained as the city engineer.

And then the oil boom happened.  The firm and its affiliates grew from 150 staff members to over 2,500 providing services largely to the oil patch.  Fees from local governments were low in comparison to those from the oil companies and resources were gradually shifted to the oil patch despite pleas from many employees to not abandon the vary clients who sustained the company in its formative years.

When the oil boom burst in the early 80’s, the company was downsized to under 150 in a matter of months.  Survival was made more difficult because much of the solid base that the company use to have was gone.

Autodesk may be making a similar mistake:

  • Providing a product mix of poorly integrated applications
  • Ignoring basic bug/feature fix requests in favor often esoteric new features
  • Encouraging/forcing users to purchase suites
  • Moving from a perpetual license model to a rental model
  • Placing marketing ahead of the original software development culture that Autodesk was founded on
  • Ignoring the very customers that established a firm foundation for the company
  • Decimating their once strong channel and now competing directly against the remaining resellers with their own on-line store

An interesting twist in the Autodesk story is the recent change in the Board of Directors as a result of activist investors.  Ralph Grabowski provides an in-depth  analysis of this and the future of Autodesk products in his upFront.eZine newsletter.


Posted in AutoCAD, Civil 3D | Tagged , , ,

Small Civil Design Firms Can Dominate The Site Design Market!

Smaller civil engineering firms have the regional knowledge and relationships with local developers to allow them to win significant subdivision design projects.  Their goal is to deliver a quality design  at a reasonable, profitable fee – to dominate their market!

Dominate Your Development Marketing with Civil Site Design

Dominate Your Local Development Market with Civil Site Design

To achieve this, these firms require design software that significantly increases their efficiency and  allows them to deliver quality designs faster with minimal training.

Site design software must be:

  • Available at a reasonable cost.
  • Useable from day one with minimal training.
  • Able to quantitatively reduce the time required to deliver accurate design drawings.

Autodesk’s Civil 3D is the de facto standard for road and highway design in the United States.  It is a powerful collection of proven tools that have systematically evolved over the years. Civil 3D users tend to fall into two broad groups:

  • Those who have invested the time and effort to fully learn and understand Civil 3D. These users are keen supporters.
  • Those who find Civil 3D expensive and too complex to use effectively. They have made the investment in the software and training but are not realizing the benefits they expected.

I found the following quotation from an experienced Civil 3D user and instructor on Linkedin to be quite revealing:

” I love it (ie Civil 3D), I can use it, but still face all the issues listed. I stand by that out of all the users, 5% can actually use it, even after all these years. In the end, it costs everyone that tries to use it, more money than what they are doing already. I’ve made a living off of it being so difficult to use, only to be left tired of all the complaints and 2D usage of C3D!”

Civil Site Design from Civil Survey Solutions has taken a different approach.  Originally marketed as Advanced Road Design, it was an add-on to Civil 3D designed to simplify and automate the generation of road designs. That anyone could successfully sell such an add-on to an already expensive product is indicative of the benefits it offers.

Now Civil Site Design has evolved into a feature rich site design application that continues to work with Civil 3D but also runs on top of AutoCAD and BricsCAD significantly reducing the overall cost of the software.  The chart below compares the 5 year cost of Civil 3D rental versus Civil Site Design running on top of BricsCAD.

Civil 3D - Civil Site Design 5 year costs

A smaller firm will realize a 5 year savings of close to  $7,000 per license. Imagine the savings in larger firms with 20 or more licenses. Firms who have not invested in Civil 3D will recoup the cost of the software in their first design.

But there are even more significant benefits than cost alone – productivity:

  • Training costs are minimal. With extensive on-line video’s and tutorial files, users can begin designing roads and sites after 8-16 hours of self training. A Civil 3D training video series is 48 hours long.
  • With the automated road design tool, a preliminary design for a 10 road subdivision can be generated in less than 5 minutes.
  • With real-time rendering integrated directly with your design, designers can immediately visualize a design, perform line of sight analysis, drive throughs and create videos instantly.
  • Personalized support from developers who still care about you.
  • Data sharing allows multiple users to work on different design components simultaneously with real-time updates amongst users.
  • BricsCAD and Civil Site Design are noticeably faster and more stable than Civil 3D even on lower cost computers

Civil Site Design is not going to replace Civil 3D in the short term.  But if you are a smaller civil engineering firm that wants to dominate your local market or if your organization is not realizing the full benefits of Civil 3D, spend a few minutes to review this overview video and consider downloading the free 30 day trial available at the Civil Site Design website.

Posted in AutoCAD, BricsCAD, Civil 3D, Road Design, Site Design | 1 Comment

Save $6,825 Over 5 Years From the AutoCAD Rental Program!

Like many software companies, Autodesk is moving to a software rental model.  Although this approach is common for new cloud based solutions, will it be accepted by AutoCAD users who are accustomed to owning their desktop software?

The chart below shows the savings that AutoCAD rental customers can achieve over a 5 year period by switching to BricsCAD.  You save $810 the first year and your savings increase to a total of $6,825 after 5 years. Multiply that by the number of licenses you have – and you can realize a significant impact on your bottom line.


But what is the risk?

DWG compatibility:

BricsCAD is 100% DWG supporting files back to version 2.5.


BricsCAD has all of the functionality of AutoCAD and much more. Learn more.

End User Training:

BricsCAD has virtually the same interface as AutoCAD and will even load your custom menu files. Users are fully operational in the new environment in minutes. A recent BricsCAD adopter commented:

“I have the BricsCAD link and just installed it on my machine.  After about 5 minutes of changing some settings it already feels like home.  You were right, it feels the same as AutoCAD”


BricsCAD will load and run your custom AutoLISP functions without change.  If you have developed ARX applications, these can be configured for BricsCAD with a simple recompile.


You will be stunned at how fast BricsCAD runs compared to AutoCAD even on low cost notebooks.

What Do the Pro’s Say:

Ralph Grabowski, a preeminent technology author, celebrating 30 years of reporting on CAD, provides all if the information you need in his 300 page BRICSCAD for AutoCAD Users eBook.

3rd Party Applications

With its free 3rd party developer program, Bricsys is developing an ever growing network of developers. Read these reviews the survey and civil markets.

Take Away

The potential impacts of change are always a concern amongst owners, CAD managers and users. Unlike other AutoCAD clones which focus on price, BricsCAD eliminates virtually all of the risk at a cost savings that can’t be ignored.  It certainly deserves the few hours of effort required for an evaluation Download a 30 Day Trial Here.


Posted in AutoCAD, BricsCAD, Road Design, Site Design

What Will You Do When Autodesk Abandons DWG?

The thought of Autodesk abandoning DWG never really occurred to me until I read Ralph Grabowski’s interview with Neil Peterson – President of the ODA (Open Design Alliance).  The ODA  is an organization of 1280 firms that support the development of the Teigha toolkit to allow members to read and write DWG files amongst others.

Will Autodesk really abandon DWG?

Will Autodesk really abandon DWG?

Q: Autodesk is pinning their future on running all their software on the cloud and licensing only by subscriptions. Will this affect you?

A: Autodesk is leaving a void by doing this. They do not have a cloud offering compatible with their desktop software. We are different in that we are providing a technology, while they are providing a service. People can build on our system; they cannot build on Autodesk’s [cloud services].

In our view, the cloud has to be compatible with the desktop, and so we can reuse all our desktop stuff on the cloud [like civil or architectural custom object support on servers], instead of making an incompatible leap to something else. For some reason, Autodesk is unable to use its own DWG library for [Web and mobile-based] AutoCAD 360, and so has to rewrite it. For us, all that needs to change is the user interface; everything else of ours should work on both the client and the server sides.

My Read:

We are fortunate to have organizations such as ODA and firms such as Bricsys and Civil Survey Solutions that provide real, cost effective alternatives.

It will be interesting to see when engineering firms begin to break the handcuffs that Autodesk has traditionally used to keep the design industry in check.

Is Autodesk FUD the reason many firms are ignoring BricsCAD – an effective AutoCAD alternative at 15% of the cost or Civil Site Design – a civil site design add on to Civil 3D, AutoCAD and BricsCAD?

Read the full interview here.

Pauli Carmody / Foter / CC BY

Posted in Uncategorized | Tagged , , , | Leave a comment

Civil Site Design – The Next Generation in Subdivision Design

This post has been updated and moved here.

I just received a beta of “Civil Site Design” – the re-branded “Advanced Road Design” software from Civil Survey Solutions.

The new name makes a lot of sense because Advance Road Design was so much more that road design software – it is ideally suited to subdivision and site design. The newest release takes engineering design to the next level with built in rendering, bi-directionally  linked directly to your design.

Bi-directional links between rendering and design

Visualization integrated into your design. Changes in your design are automatically rendered in the model.

Continue reading

Posted in Road Design, Site Design | Tagged , , , , | 2 Comments

Advanced Road Design – “26 Road Subdivision Conceptual Design in 4 Minutes”

While researching Advanced Road Design, I came across this 2007 post by Angel Espinoza. I’ve highlighted some of Angel’s key points in blue.

I will be digging deeper into Advanced Road Design in future posts. This is software that is worth examining since it works on Civil 3D, AutoCAD and BricsCAD.  Maybe we can get land development desktop back.

Angel’s Civil 3D Thoughts: March 2007

MONDAY, MARCH 05, 2007

Nothing Up My Sleeve
Just like everyone else, I have been unbelievably busy. Although, I did get to try something that has me VERY excited about the future use of Civil 3D. A product will be out shortly called Advanced Road Design CORRIDOR-EZY. Some of you may have seen it at Autodesk University. This product is developed by CADApps Australia. After learning some about it here is my progress.

Continue reading

Quote | Posted on by | Tagged , , , , , | Leave a comment

A Complete Solution for Surveyors – No Need to Upgrade Your AutoCAD!

1 foot contours over a 3 sq mile area generated in 30 seconds

1 foot contours over a 3 sq mile area generated in 30 seconds. Background image from MapQuest using MapWorks Web Image Tool

Surveyors require a suite of tools that must be both powerful and easy to use. Typical tasks include:

  • Loading survery data from standard formats
  • Layout lots and quickly write legal descriptions
  • Build surfaces and generate contours
  • Import Esri SHP files
  • Generate profiles and cross-sections
  • Create a preliminary grading plan
  • Calculate cut and fill volumes
MapWorks generated these 5' contours from 300,000 points in under 4 minutes

MapWorks generated these 5′ contours from 300,000 points in under 4 minutes

What if you could do all of this and much more for an investment of  $495 and continue to use your exsiting AutoCAD license?

Need to upgrade you AutoCAD but want to own your license – consider BricsCAD- 100% dwg compatibiliy for only $650!

Continue reading

Posted in AutoCAD, BricsCAD, Design, Mapping | Tagged , , , , , | 1 Comment